AutoFarm Proposal: Collaboration with Venus

I think there is a reason why Venus hasn’t used the funds sitting in the treasury since the event until now. It’s very clear that the way these funds get there wasn’t exactly legit, if not we wouldn’t be having this discussion right now.
I know Venus has been through a lot, but I really don’t understand how this discussion was dragged on for more than 4 months. Should have been refunded at the moment the accident happened. Now we are discussing if Autofarm writes good or bad contracts, but in the meantime, we users have been held hostage. It’s not the legitimate fee of 0.1% that was charged to us (that i happily pay) it was a lot more, so don’t tell me that’s fair.
Is not Binance stepping in to help us with the XVS issue? Why can Venus help the users that lost money due to a coding mishappen? Why punish the end-user in this dispute?
AF can maybe pay with fees but that could take years, and will be paid with fees from another innocent user that it’s not involved in this issue at all. The money wasn’t taken by a stranger, the bad strat got that money in Venus treasury, so why is so hard to return it to their legitimate users?
I just don’t understand how selfish people can be that they are willing to take people’s savings in order to grow themselves :frowning:

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Sorry, I don’t want to hurt your feelings, but your last sentence kind of amuses me…

I just don’t understand how selfish people can be that they are willing to take people’s savings in order to grow themselves :frowning:

Isn’t that the exact reason we are all in the Defi sector?
To grow our savings?

And if that is true: Are you really believing that one can grow savings without some guy / gal loosing money?

Whenever there is somebody buying high selling low, there is somebody profiting and the other way around.
So yes: Venus holders will be “selfish” about the money in “our” treasury, because Autofarm had been informed and they just did nothing…

And trying to trick the venus community with this made up numbers in the proposal is just killing it.

It is Autofarms solely responsibility…
I would be glad to help, but I don’t see why you dare to say it was not legit…
It was perfectly legit and other sites noticed the fee and acted accordingly…

Yes I am insane and looks like you have a full understanding of the proposal. This is the direct quote from Autofarm’s proposal:
" * Bring about ~$800m to $1b in TVL increase to Venus platform as per the previous numbers when Venus vaults were still available on Autofarm. This will result in ~20.84% increase in Venus’ TVL. With this increase in TVL, Venus platform is estimated to receive nett earnings of ~$206,613 daily and ~$75.4m in a year."

Can you educate me how the calculation works - $1b TVL → $75.4m net earning in a year.
Venus’s current TVL is at ~$4b, does it mean we are earning $75.4*4=$300m per year? If you believe their calculation is correct then you should buy XVS. If you think their calculation is incorrect then please ask yourself - why did Autofarm post a proposal here with wrong figures? What is their intention? Does this do any good for “collaboration”?

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So several thing:

  1. I never called anyone insane. I said it was insane that people didn’t even try to understand the proposal.
    If i say, it’s crazy how many people die on the road each day, it doesn’t mean that driver or pedestrians are crazy, is it?

  2. my reply is in context of what Marco was saying. Saying that autofarm only have 400M in single assets and total tvl of 1 billion and therefore are lying about the ability to bring a billion tvl.
    That’s just not how both platform works. Autofarm did bring between 800M to 1B in tvl before, and the chance they can bring a that back is very possible with this proposal.

  3. autofarm didn’t say that it was bringing 200k a day. It says that the with the increase tvl, the total net of Venus will be 200k/day. Hence 40k from the 1B tvl added.

“ With this increase in TVL, Venus platform is estimated to receive nett earnings of ~$206,613 daily and ~$75.4m in a year.

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In this proposal we will have:

  • New designed Venus vaults with 2.9% performance fee only on YO AutoFarm compared to 15.3% performance fee on YO ACryptoS (being the only YO left on Venus).
  • Venus TVL should increase by 25% due to AutoFarm leveraged strategy.
  • Venus TVL should increase by ~$1B with the AutoFarm optimised single staking vaults.
  • With this increase in TVL, Venus platform is estimated to receive net earnings of ~$206,613 daily and ~$75.4m in a year.

Having 2.9% performance fee on the new Venus vaults, compared to the regular 3.4% BSC performance fee, on top of $AUTO-APY-boost are key among all other current AutoFarm single staking vaults.

Proposal is:

  • refund AutoFarm users from funds in Venus treasury - about $10M
    - Venus gets very competitive newly design single vaults on Autofarm that should increase Venus TVL by ~$800M/$1B and would generate around ~$75M a year

#DoTheMath

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Okay so they are saying with $5b TVL ($4b current TVL + $1b potentially from Autofarm) brings ~$75.4m in a year. I am really interested to know how they come up with this figure, and since you understand their proposal quite well, can you shed us some light? FYR, current Treasury is at $16m.

You’re misunderstanding revenue and profit.
Autofarm will bring extra revenue, it is on Venus to decide how they spend them. If they decided to spend 100% of the extra revenue, then the profit would be 0. If they spent 0%, then you got 100% profit. The treasury has nothing to do with the revenue.

See what I am talking about when I say it is crazy?
All these questions should have been asked first, in a calm matter, to trying to understand the proposal. Instead, people are right away accusing Autofarm to be a liar and trying to deceive people…

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See what I am talking about when I say it is crazy?
All these questions should have been asked first, in a calm matter, to trying to understand the proposal. Instead, people are right away accusing Autofarm to be a liar and trying to deceive people…

Well this is defi mate…
Every minute you take to explain things like you would explain them to a little child is a well invested minute.
And if you take time on top and explain the math behind the proposal to let people do their own research you won’t have to live to a shitstorm like that…

But please face it: A proposal that leaves so many questions open is no good proposal.

I don’t know why you bring up revenue and profit. Just focus on what is written in Autofarm’s proposal please. They are saying $75.4m NET EARNINGS in a year.

Have you heard of AAVE? Do you know how many interest income are they making in a year and how big is their TVL? Please educate me. how could they come up with $75.4m NET EARNINGS in a year with $5bil TVL.

Are you asking Autofarm to know what Venus is going to do with the money? How can they even know?

They know how much money they will bring. How it is going to be spent is only known by Venus itself.

We will use that treasury to burn xvs not to cover your own fault
Acryptos didn’t lost anything at withdraw fee upgrade

That is not what sszs was asking.
The question is concerning the math behind that net profit that Autofarm is claiming to bring.
It is not realistic at all.

But why isn’t realistic?

I cannot find anywhere how much revenue has Venus, so I’m gonna take the number given here and see if it’s unrealistic.

With 5billion tvl, this proposal claim Venus will make 76M/yr. 76M/5000M = 0.015
That result in 1.5% revenue from the amount invested in Venus.

1.5% of revenue from TVL doesn’t seems that high or unrealistic at all to me.

So 1B from autofarm, result in ~15M/yr and ~40k a day.

If nobody buys XVS, price will continue to decrease overtime.

Burning doesnt provide value. It’s a smokescreen.
We require more tvl and more consumers.

If we sell our treasury, we will misplace consumers and get a very bad reputation : "people delegating to Venus vaults on yield optimizers are still Venus users. Are we the first community which dumps their own members ?":clap::clap::clap:

Lets beg more to Autofarm or arrange penality lines.

I demand for an Auto lend/borrow vault. I have no idea how many tokens can be provided by Autofarm but it will provide direct TVL. Auto holders wouldnt dump themselves. Until we get at least 75,4m$ of revenues, Autofarm will have to let their supply deposit

If they dont provide the revenues in less than a year, we could take 10% of the team deposit every month.

If they provide more than 75,4 m$ in 7 months, they will be allowed to withdraw the supply deposit.

Fair enough ?

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First thing, pretty sure you haven’t followed recent protocol developments. The old withdrawal fee was 0.01% instead of 0.1% you claimed. Said fee is currently 0 after VIP33.

Your math is invalid because there isn’t such item to begin with. Protocol income of Venus comes from interest APY from borrowers.

This is your math? And you are saying other people do not fully understand the proposal? You don’t know Venus’s source of earnings, you don’t know the earning figures of similar protocols. You don’t do you homework same as Autofarm. Convince me with concrete figures, not something like “oh 1.5% sounds realistic”.

Go check out yourself at Aave Weekly: Protocol Performance & Governance Update - #97 by Alex_BertoG - Governance - Aave

The latest weekly report says that the weekly income from interest reserve is $1,071,300 and this is the highest in recent weeks. Please at least do some research and tell me what is AAVE’s TVL, I don’t want to feed all figures to your mouth. Then you can come back and say whether $75.4m a year is realistic for Venus assuming $5b TVL.

Thanks Marcus for this feedback
Admins explained me fees were cheaper on the Venus.finance than Venus.io ! :triumph::rage::face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

About my calculations, it was a low estimation.
In fact, we get more.

For example:
USDT lending is 4,9%
USDT borrowing is -6,63%

We gain 1,73% on the TVL provided by Autofarm vaut.
Then we add 0,01% on each compound.

Assuming they provide 7M$ tvl on their Venus USDT Vault with 7 compounds and safemax position (50%)
7,000,000x (1,5)^7 x 1,73/100= $2,069,107
7,000,000x (1,5)^7 x 0,01/100*365= $4,365,467

The annual net income for Venus would be between $2,069,107 and $6,434,574.

I’m sure Venus team get fees even if they announce waive of withdrawal fees. I dont get why bnb tx fees are so expensive.

Nevertheless my estimation is still uncorrect, we would get more :

The more Autofarm will compound, the more is borrowed, the lower liquidity is and the higher borrowing APR we get ($$$).

Please correct me if i’m wrong

I think we should NOT discuss on how they estimated those figures.

I prefer to elaborate what they will pay to us if they dont provide the incomes announced (we have Binance on our side they will cooperate).

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I viewed your Aave weekly report and I didnt verified sources or figures.
It talks about liquidities, generated tokens and collector fees.
It’s a weekly report from ETH project (there is no compound on this chain … Too expensive).

Have you checked my calculations ? Please correct me if i’m wrong

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Nice topic….
No merc to ignorants and incompetent protocols. Why should we pay for the stupidest and faults of others? They were informed and enough time to react. The situation tells me they only out for profits and not for a healthy growth in this crypto ecosystem.

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